PAPA DON'T PREACH....
FORGIVE HIM FOR HE REALLY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS SAYING...
It's no secret that I believe the Roman Catholic Church of the 21st century has been very misguided as of late. Their restrictive policies about women's roles in Catholic institutions, their insistence on meddling in Philippine government policies and their retarded view towards contraception and homosexuality are only a few of the things that made me proudly assert my Cafeteria Catholicism. But after reading the Ateneo de Manila's "beloved" Father Reuter's defense of the accused in the Subic Rape Case, I'm now thisclose to ditching everything and going Protestant - heck, Pagan even. In an article in The New York Times, he inferred that the victim in the aforementioned case was a "seductress" simply because she was older than her attacker and claimed that she really instigated the whole thing (Um, so I guess it was also her idea to get assaulted and have her drunk immobile body dumped on the side of the road too, eh?). In addition, he called the accused, Danny Boy, the real victim here. Even bizaarely referring to him as the "baby boy". Now this is totally out of line for a man who has zero ideas about sex and even much less about sex crimes. Click here and blow your freaking mind on the words of this aging Jesuit. And to all of you out there from all the Ateneo de Wherevers: Please, I would Looooove to hear your take on this.
posted by carlosceldran @ 1:37 AM
71 Comments:
I read the NYT times story.
i just love him unconditionally. that's all...
(you went to our wedding Carlos? he was our priest. I've always loved him, always will.)
MUAHAHAHAHAHHA
That had to be funniest and SADDEST thing I have ever read hands down. Someone should put him out to pasture already...damn!! can I have some of that wine and hostia Father Reuter in exchange for an extended play CD of Beyonce and Sean Paul's "Baby Boy"? I want some of your obviously spiked mompog wine and hostia now!!! Taking that on an empty stomach (my appetite wiped off the face of the earth by that article) will probably give me the best high I've ever experienced........
carlos
stick to heritage conservation and leave god out of your blog.
kaya
^ Wow! So now you equate Catholicism with God Himself? This organization is totally in waaay over its head.
Seriously, where did Carlos mention God in the post?
Go for the agnostic camp, much easier than trying to figure out why the catholics/protestants/muslim/hindus/jews/buddhists/pagans believe and do what they do or say.
Out of line. Way out of line, the good priest's comments. As out of line as those who say the Yanks were guilty. I find his comments as distasteful as those coming from the 'hate America' camp. We just dont know what happened. That's what the trial's for.
(Am not from the Ateneo, by the way.)
I'm from ateneo and i know exactly the jesuits' "jesuitic" mindset; they pretend to be socially progressive but when push comes to shove and the pressure's on they go crawling back into the arms of the hardline rightwing.
But to be fair, the jesuits in latin america are far more progressive than our local jesuits in this country. Why that is i have yet to figure out. perhaps it is because, with our history as a direct colony of the US, we are more brainwashed than the latin americans to obey the American propaganda line. Yup, our former foreign masters can do no wrong. they're the 'good guys', remember?
carlos,
i'm a fan. but please, you might want to do your research first. Fr. Reuter may be a Jesuit, but he hasnt been based in ADMU for the longest time.
I've been in and out of that campus for the past 20 years, having gone thru Elementary, High School and College there. I still go back to bring my brother to school daily, and to visit some jesuit friends as well, BUT I have yet to see Fr. Reuter there.
Your last line asks Ateneans to sound off on this. Sadly, you might not hear much from us of the more recent generations, since we hardly know the guy.
- X
Carlos, I admire you for speaking your mind. In the Philippines, most everyone is so blinded by the Catholic faith. Little room is left for reason and no one ever questions the Catholic Church.
I remember attending a retreat in high school given by Fr. Reuter way back in 1990. All the man talked about was preserving one's virginity. I swear. He even played back a tape of "Baby Love" and "Papa Don't Preach" for all of us kolehiyalas to analyze, line by line. I thought it was the most bullshit thing on the planet. I love Madonna. And I also went to the slums every week to teach poor children! He couldve talked about serving the poor. Instead he went as far as to saying that Madonna is God's enemy. What a nut job!
I also remember stupidly confessing to him about being a lesbian and all he told me was that it is okay as long as I dont express my feelings through physical means. I went home even more confused and isolated. So nmuch for spreading God's unconditional love.
I have stopped going to mass, however, I still pray to God and I follow the golden rule. Nothing is more liberating than breaking free from years of spoon-fed Catholic guilt. You think more clearly, and hence, you love your neighbors more unconditionally. I applaud you, Carlos!
Forgot to air my thoughts on fr reuter pala: look, the fact is he's an (very) old man from another generation, another world. you can't really expect him to be in touch with reality.
He's from a society that, if he was living in Galileo's time, would most certainly be one of the staunch defenders of the world-is- flat theory. (google 'christian flat earth theory')
So i believe good ol' fr reuter is of the 'women are evil and instruments of satan put on this earth to tempt men with their womanly wiles' camp. Sadly there are people like him still around on this planet (opus dei anyone?). I tell you Dan Brown is onto something.
Catholics are like US Republicans, they seek to conserve the status quo. they don't like change. They don't want to think, don't want to question. They only want to be ideologically and philosophically...comfortable.
No one knows what really happened, and with all the legal grandstanding going on, we may never know the truth of the matter.
But (a) if it turns out the girl was lying, all I can say it takes some kind of guts to waste the court's time and resources, not to mention the righteous anger of all the cause-oriented groups, just for some notoriety; and (b) if it turns out she was raped at some point during the time she was with those guys, the perps should be held accountable in some way, and not have the whole thing swept under the rug.
Just saying.
I don't think you should confuse the man with the institution, not that I am a fan of the Catholic Church.
Having said that, we seem to be plagued at present with old men's rantings e.g. Isagani Cruz.
As to the facts of the case, that is indeed what the trial is supposed to be about.
I totally agree with Gonzo's remarks.
Out of touch with reality, women are evil, we don't want to question anything.
"Leave God out of your blog".
Catholicism and it's policies have everything to do with Carlos' vocation of social /urban development and changing the way people see this city. His blog has never been only about heritage conservation.
Hey, I got an idea. Why don't you just leave his blog instead?
Bravo Carlos for being brave enough to say what you do.
I too attended a HS retreat of father R's in 1990 and i clearly remember him telling us that if you masturbate ( as females) we will get cancer of the reprodutive organs. Yes. I was only 17 then but i do remeber thinking, this priest is one egg short of a dozen.. i havent been catholic since i was 14 so his little proclamations did nothing for me . during our 1 on 1 confesional he asked me if i mastubated... siyempre i told the truth... he made me say like 10 hail marys etc and not to do it again. weird and kinda perverse dontcha think???
in my opinion, the jesuit system in this country has poduced some o the most arogant, duplicitous, pompous males i have ever had the misfortune of meeting. not too mention the atenean jack-asses that run our country. please! i have no faith in that system for our clime, this man is most obviously absurd and really nobody should be bothering with his rantings anymore. gosh, dont get me started....
Everyone,
Since none of you have spoken to the accused, i believe none of you are in any position to even comment on the who is guilty or not. As a man of God and having had contact with the US service men, i am inclined to believe the good Fr Reuter. It seems everyone is all too quick to blame the Church and Fr Reuter based on his/hers existing religious inclinations.
Kaya
I don't get your post Kaya. Are you the man of God? Or are you speaking of Father Reuter?
Having said that, Fr. Reuter really should not polarize the whole situation here with his presence. The clergy has no place in the courts of law.
That's all.
You can enter a name in the Name field when posting a comment by clicking on Other. The Name and Your Web Page fields appear. Enter a nick/alias in the Name field. That way we won't get a proliferation of Anonymice and will make comments easier to track. ;-)
how would fr. reuter's statements anger filipinos, when most pinoys don't even know about it?
http://news.google.com/news?num=20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=%22james+reuter%22
hindi pa siya kino-cover ng local media.
when it comes to topics that touch on sexuality, i tend to NOT give credence to people who have celibacy vows.
"in my opinion, the jesuit system in this country has poduced some o the most arogant, duplicitous, pompous males i have ever had the misfortune of meeting. not too mention the atenean jack-asses that run our country. please! i have no faith in that system for our clime, this man is most obviously absurd and really nobody should be bothering with his rantings anymore. gosh, dont get me started...."
EXCUSE ME!!! that arrogant(sic), duplicitous, pompous attitude is STRICTLY AN ATENEO DE MANILA PHENOMENON. the rest of us jesuit-educated blokes are quite far off from that stereotype. only the loyola campus eggheads have that 'i am superior' mindset.
Hey carlos congrats u got all their attention. hehehe!
And all along until his death, my eldest brother regretted he wasn't able to fulfill his dream for me -- to study at Ateneo instead of the nearby MIT. If he were still alive and if Ignacio Loyola's comment were indeed true, then my brother can regret no more and thereby rest in peace :)
hey jego, "anonymice"?? excellent verbal creativity. hahaha. brilliant.
Comment #26 out of potentially 100 and more (I tell you Carlos, this post of yours is a surefire hit!)
Well, I guess the good old Father is just stuck in a generation with its mindset and sense of order far removed from ours. To be fair, I had come to this conclusion by reading some of his newspaper columns in the Philippine Star. The past do offer some sort of comfort from the oppression of the present, so let's just leave him there.
As for the Good Atenean / Evil Atenean thing, it's up to the individual to make use of education from whatever school for good or for bad. It's unfortunate that the bad guys get all the notoriety while the good guys silently and meekly do their stuff away from the limelight. Then again, are the good guys doing enough?
If one cannot distinguish between Catholic doctrine/beliefs/Faith, or those of any religion for that matter, over its current clergy, its current hierarchy, or even its current congregation, then I suppose rightfully that person does not belong in the Catholic religion or whichever religion he is already a member of.
Salvation is not a matter of numbers in membership.
And for those who are inclined to criticize the statements and position of Fr. Reuter, allow me to pose a little question:
If one take the moral high ground because one believes he HAS the moral high ground, and in this instance he may very well have it, shouldn’t that person’s rhetoric also travel along that same high moral ground? Laced with and characterized by compassion and respect?
From an alumnus of a “provincial” Ateneo
carlos,
fr. reuters wasn't being jesuit, he was being american.
go ateneo!
hey amadeo, what drugs are you on? that last paragraph was totally meaningless.
as for the Catholic doctrine vs current clergy issue, as Carlos says we don't like a lot of Catholic views regardless of who is in power (eg the traditional subjugation/demonization of women, for one), and i am particularly appalled by the Church's ridiculously archaic and downright moronic stance against birth control; this in a country with a runaway population explosion that is causing millions of children to go hungry.
What the f@$# are the bishops thinking?? Do they not go around and see the misery in urban slums and the rural areas? Again, a bunch of old men belonging to another era living in their well-appointed bishops' homes. Of course, unlike many of the poor, they're getting their three squares a day, courtesy of sunday mass donations.
Let's face it: the catholic religion, as practised today, is inherently flawed, and has become one of the major obstacles to Philippine economic development and progress.
I can see the Church waning in influence and losing its flock over time because of its stubborn refusal to accept present day realities. Even today zillions of catholics disobey the Church when it comes to birth control simply because IT MAKES SENSE. People instinctively realize the Church is wrong on this issue.
Reminds me of the the movie, '...what if the Greatest Story Ever Told was a lie'?
Btw, i was raised Catholic, an Atenean all through school from the age of five.
As an Atenista from both "provincial" and the metropolitan branches, I'd say that I've always seen the Jesuits as independent agents of their own personal crusades. It would be unfair to characterize Reuter's own advocacy of the Marines as an "atenista" thing.
OK, here's an opinion that's bound to get me figuratively kicked in the teeth: what if Fr. Reuter's right?
Not saying I believe one conclusion or the other one, but it's a possibility we ought to consider, there having been no verdict either way.
Is there a way to be fair to either party - be totally agnostic until we get a judgment? Let me put it this way: many moral panics (1, 2) throughout the world have made the innocent suffer because it's "politically correct" to believe the accusers, especially if the accusation has to do with sex and power issues. (Sex: raped girl, check. Power: US servicemen, check.)
To be sure, Reuter doesn't fall into this category - he believes the woman is a "seducer" and the boys are innocent. I hope we just don't believe the opposite (guilty as charged! burn the mo-fo's!) in the absence of any real evidence.
My apologies to the ateneans that i put into the "bad" category ( pompous etc) was just my experiences with so many products from that institution that i base my generalizations. No offense intended to you.
It just doesnt sit right with me that Fr. Reuter should be involved in any way with these trials when he so succinctly says that he is an "american"-- kinda makes you think that he IS biased, being an american. The church, and most especially "foreign" clergy should have no say in our local justice system. "Filipino at heart" my @#$ .
It really ticks me off when i hear non-filipinos talk about how lousy our country is; YES is it run like crap but the only people who get to say so should be the people who have philippine passports. We earned the right to b%$#h !
If he really did say that, he must have his reasons for doing so. Besides, we don't know yet who really is the guilty party. I am pretty sure Fr. Reuter meant well, even if his statements did sound off. Siempre it's a given we'd side with Nicole, but let justice take its course.
As to Loyola's statement re AdMU eggheads, sadly I may have to agree with him. I once got ribbed for using the term "Atenista" to describe myself only to be informed that that term is for exclusively use only by AdMU people. What a sad thought, indeed. Buti na lang I firmly believe in Ateneo's active non-violence principle or else baka iba pa masabi ko dito.
Fortunately, all my Jesuit friends beg to disagree with that hollow mindset. I miss Xavier University all of a sudden.
My prayers for everyone involved in Nicole's case. May justice prevail in the end.
"fr. reuters wasn't being jesuit, he was being american."
Bingo!
Here is a link to a blog that has information on "Nicole's" side of the story. It's put up by TOWNS; one of whose members is handling her case Pro Bono:
http://subicrapecase.wordpress.com/
Am sure the lawyers for the Marines are loving that they have an American priest coming to the defense of their client in a Catholic country. Fr. Reuter is a good tool for them.
I'm a practising Catholic who also realizes that priests are as human and flawed as the rest of us. And I feel no qualms about disagreeing with how Fr. Reuter views the whole situation.
i dont think fr. reuter being an american has anything to do with it. and though i am not surprised, i am saddened by that generalization. this "tribal mentality," us-versus-them is real b.s. in my opinion. and i hope we dont fall to that leftist trap of equating this case to "that imperialist bush-gma regime raping the dignity of the poor filipino masses". please!!!!
"I once got ribbed for using the term 'Atenista' to describe myself only to be informed that that term is for exclusively use only by AdMU people."
Ex-cuuuuse me. Kung ayaw mong upakan yung kausap mo na yan, ako na lang. Ateneo de Davao graduate (gs/hs) here, and I can tell you that we were always "Atenista" to ourselves and other Dabawenyos. Buti na lang idiots like that are a rarity... but he's an idiot nonetheless.
I'd like him to repeat his nonsense before a group of Atenistas from Naga, Davao, and Zamboanga... and see how long it takes to pick up his broken teeth from the floor afterward.
no one should really take a catholic priest seriously in this country. after that new york times article, i'm sure he's going the way of justice isagani cruz after his inquirer article. good riddance!
carlos, it strikes me, though, how you outprotested the Protestants. I'm not sure Protestants agree with you. The WASPs and evangelicals certainly don't think the way you do. Ask President Bush. he's Methodist, I think.
Re. Fr. Reuters, I feel sorry for him. He has a point but I'm appalled by the mere thought and the use of "baby boy." No further comment bec. I love what Fr. Reuter has done for the country.
About the comment above:
Filipino Protestants can be considered WHITE ANGLO SAXON PROTESTANTS (WASPs)?...
just curious...
huh? i didn't mean to imply that
From Seth Mydan's NYTimes/IHT article:
“Are we poor?” he (Reuter) said. “Yes we are. Are we getting poorer? Yes we are. How is it going to be getting better? I don’t know.”
It seems a discouraging assessment after nearly 70 years in the Philippines, but by profession, Reuter has no choice but to be an optimist. “I think somehow God will take care of us.
“That’s doesn’t sound like an economic plan, but that’s what I think.”
----------------> So the question is: Do you like how God is taking care of the Philippines? I mean, our country hobbles along, with some of the lowest growth rates in the Southeast Asian region for the last 30-35 years (which, coupled with the highest population growth rates in the region, - thanks to the Catholic church's opposition to modern family planning methods - is a formula for never-ending poverty).
Meanwhile our neighbors are getting wealthier, even as their populations grow at a slower & more sustainable rate (resulting in a more equitable division of resources to feed, educate, provide healthcare & employ their citizens).
If this is God's way of taking care of us, I'm having NONE of it. We Filipinos are always on our knees, imploring heaven to bless us. But it seems that heaven is ignoring us. Meanwhile, God is blessing our Southeast Asian neighbors with increasing wealth - and most of them don't even believe in a Christian God! Something is way WAY off here.
In the same article Reuter is quoted as saying: “The people are the most lovable in the world, very generous. They are suffering but they are very prayerful. They manage to smile no matter how hard things get.”
Another question: why is God not answering our prayers? Maybe God doesn't understand Tagalog? Or is God a sadist, does he enjoy watching Pinoys suffer?
I believe We are " economically challenged" not because of the catholic church's doctrines on birth control but more because the politicians and lawmakers who run this country. the distribution of wealth is grossly mismanaged . im sure were all aware of that.
I say this as a protestant " ALL CHILDREN are a blessing from God " no church or state should have the right to say how many childen we may or may not have. Education, education, education is KEY to understanding WHY it is advantageous NOT have 10 children as opposed to 3, and the resources available to us to make that conscious decision for ourselves. Population is not the root problem here, distribution of resouces left in the hands of ruthless and self-serving people is. China after all is one of the most populous countries in the world yet why is it not impoverished ? And i do speak as a protestant in saying that unfotunately the catholic chuch is not solely to blame for our societies ills. God answers the prayers of those whose hearts are pure if as a society we havent learned how to behave yet , then our prayers will never be answered.
see, this is why i am an agnostic.
Um. China has one of the strictest population policies, Protestita.
And the "self serving, rulthess" politicians of this country are mostly Catholic (Christian). What does that say?
Your argument has failed.
Church must be separate from State.
Period.
GOD D@MN IT! SOME of you are really dense! this is not a religious battle, for Christ's sake! this is not a "catholic thing", or "WASP" thing (WTF?!). this is somebody, albeit carried some, as in very little, influence opinionating on something that a lot of US disagree on. THAT'S IT! "problem with catholics"- the problem with some of YOU catholics is if its disagreeable to you you tend to attack the faith, which was, is and ever will be represented by one single priest or a group of bishops. hindi ba turo sa inyo noon sa catholic school the church is the collective of all who were baptized? jesuit school taught me that, noh?! and i dont think anybody from the government, even the janitress from the manila city hall selling longaniza on the side has asked reuter to represent the government so where does this church and state argument fall ba?!
anyway, as much as reuter has expressed his opinion- thats about it- only an opinion. weren't there also nuns and priests who blurted out stong opinions and even rallied for the alleged subic rape victim, too? did the pope issue an encyclical proclaim smith or whoever is innocent?! besides, i think reuter being the chaplain or whatever you call that to those accused, i'm sure he is privy to the personal lives of those people and i'm pretty sure he sees them as persons with fallacies, not american imperialist conquerors out to rape every filipina or filipino to show their might. puh-leeeezz!!!! get over it.
mickeytmoc,
Di ko na siiya pinansin. Wala akong panahon sa mga taong dense. :-)
Correction: "...for exclusive use..." Sorry. Emotions runneth over.
Protestita, Noone is saying the catholic church is the only hindrance to progress in this country. there are many obstacles, and the church is just one of them. Note that as has been pointed out, many of the corrupt politicos you refer to are baptized catholics in all probability.
And education is extremely important as you have pointed out, but precisely it is the church that is trying to prevent education, esp on birth control.
The church knows from its global experience that as a population becomes more educated, people tend to leave the church's fold as they become acutely aware of the Church's backwardness, detached from present day reality. (note the major decline of practising catholics in the Western world)
In short, the church is not addressing today's issues and therefore is not a help to its flock, making it, unfortunately, rather irrelevant if not moribund.
So in a way, the more backward and uneducated a society is, the easier for the Church to keep its existing flock, and to attract new adherents. Note that the largest number of practising Catholics are now in the backward, uneducated Third World (Philippines, Brazil, Latin america etc).
Should there be, God forbid, a massive boost in education in these parts of the world, do you think the Church will gain more, or less, followers?
Hey acidboy, um, i guess you didn't notice the shift of topic thread from the original 'reuter's comments issue' to a sort of religious debate. it does happen you know, the thread going off on a tangent. It's ok, it's not the end of the world. Still interesting reading.
But i agree that Fr Reuter's opinion is just that, an opinion. Carlos merely wanted to hear what everyone else had to say about it.
as for the church being a 'collective' i don't know what jesuit educated you but that is the farthest thing from the truth. The church is a hierarchy. it is not a democracy.
We are ranked: the big cheese of course is the Pope, then archbishops, bishops, priests and down the line to us lay people. It's like the military. or like a business corp-- what the CEO says, goes. And if you don't agree...in the immortal words of Donald Trump, "You're fired!" or using the Vatican's terminology, you are 'excommunicated'.
The tragedy of the church is that their CEO and top hierarchy are behind the times, and the lay people, us, their rank-and-file, are becoming increasingly aware of it, and, in the case of the West, are leaving in droves.
After all, if the big boss can be against birth control in the Third World, (an incredibly ridiculous position, esp in our country where the population is exploding and can no longer feed its children), then maybe we've got the wrong driver to take us on the road to heaven.
I'm sure there not a few of us saying: eh mag D.I.Y. na lang tayo.
"...besides, i think reuter being the chaplain or whatever you call that to those accused, i'm sure he is privy to the personal lives of those people and i'm pretty sure he sees them as persons with fallacies, not american imperialist conquerors out to rape every filipina or filipino to show their might. puh-leeeezz!!!! get over it."
um, "persons with fallacies"? Did you mean 'shortcomings, faults, frailties, or weaknesses'? Perhaps an English refresher course might be in order.
and 'american imperialist conquerors out to rape every filipina?' who is saying that? I think the argument some people are trying to make is that the US has a one-sided policy when it come to their soldiers who commit crimes on foreign soil. They don't allow local justice. The Yanks have the same problem in Japan, where rapist soldiers escape the Japanese judicial system.
But i guarantee you that if a foreign soldier committed a crime on US soil, things would be very very different.
So the criticism is on the unfortunate double-standard so often used by the Americans on the world in general. It is called the arrogance of power. And in the end it will bring the Yanks more grief than they can handle (see Iraq).
You reap what you sow.
well, gonzo, pardon my non-mastery of the english language. perhaps i will need to get a refresher course NGA to be able to join in certain discussions? does grammatical errors, if there are, makes arguments moot?
see how i'm driving this thread further off tangent? :)
Trust an old priest to know a lot about seduction.....mmmmmm.....
Going back to the original premise of this thread...
Like Jesus Christ who was in fellowship with sinners, prostitutes and criminals, Fr. Reuter's mission is to go wherever he is needed. From the articles I've read on his involvement with the Subic accused, he was asked to minister to the spiritual needs of the servicemen.
It could have been the easiest thing in the world for him to adopt a hands-off attitude. But like many men of faith Fr. Reuter chose to take the difficult path.
Like any human being, Fr. Reuter is entitled to his own opinion. Whether right or wrong, he has every right to express himself.
The Roman Catholic faith is a beautiful faith for those who experience it fully and sincerely. It is premised on a universal, unchanging truth embodied in the Bible. It is only within this truth that one is truly set free.
Carlos, how you jump to conclusions! He may know a lot about sex and about sex crimes. But probably not with females or adults.
from the 2nd comment above this...
"Like any human being, Fr. Reuter is entitled to his own opinion. Whether right or wrong, he has every right to express himself."
of course that's true. in fact, that's the given, in many ways. but fr. reuter is not just "like any human being." he is a public figure, perhaps even an icon.
when you're a public figure - especially a revered public figure - i think you have to be careful what opinion you make public. public figures often rehearse what opinions they have about certain issues before publicizing them. that's the function of publicists and public relations consultants. the ironic thing about this case is that somehow fr reuter appears to be a public relations officer for the marines.
fr. reuter understands his position in the filipino imagination, that he has considerable influence in the economy of opinions in that imagination.
I believe the priest is in good faith through all of this. He never articulated these views in his Philippine Star Saturday column...And I disagree with your view - regardless of the fact that you're a public figure and icon, you have just as much freedom of expression as any other man.
about the comment above...
again, i repeat, i don't disagree with you. and i did emphasize this.
everybody has the freedom of expression. that's the given.
now i don't plan to change your view,
but let me make this distinction:
the CHARACTER and NATURE of the freedom of expression of a public figure is NOT ABSOLUTELY THE SAME as the NATURE of the freedom of expression of somebody who is not a public figure.
but perhaps the most critical part of this distinction is that fr reuter is not merely a public figure, he is, of all people, a religious public figure, somebody who has a responsibility to uphold the moral values of a community. in this case, the filipino community. but more so, fr reuter has political influence. it is precisely because of this status that his brand of freedom of expression must be carefully publicized.
it is easy for non-public figures to assume that the nature and character of their freedom of expression is the same as the nature of the freedom of expression of public figures.
it isn't the same.
gonzo, i love you.
Its just as well that Jesus Christ, himself a public figure in his time, didn't bother to worry about which audience he might offend in making his statements and pronouncements of salvation. I'm not comparing Fr. Reuter to the Christ, but merely illustrating that courage consists of the willingness to say or do what you think is right in the face of potential persecution.
haha, that's cute, maloy... ..so, you doing anything on this rainy ev...i'm kidding i'm kidding..
well how's this for an interesting twist to carlos' little thread -- i think we can forget about nice ol' Fr Reuter, especially since his big boss of bosses has just stuffed up big-time.
Any comments on Pope Benedict's latest PR gaffe? Imagine denigrating Islam and quoting a 14th century dude on how Mohammed said that islam should be spread by the sword blah blah.
The gall of old Ratzinger, when throughout much of its history, the Church has used horrific violence, terror and brutal repression as its proselytising weapons of choice.
(you think islamic extremists are violent? google or wikipedia 'Crusades' and know the history).
And great timing btw. A fine thing to say now at a time when muslims around the world are on edge, highly insecure, and fearing a coming modern Crusade led by the most militarily destructive nation in the world. absolutely effing brilliant.
"I'm not comparing Fr. Reuter to the Christ, but merely illustrating that courage consists of the willingness to say or do what you think is right in the face of potential persecution."
Bullshit. Father Reuter was mouthing off without thinking and letting his biases show. That's all it is. Bravery has nothing to do with it I'm sure.
We can never be sure of what goes on in other people's minds...but rest assured God in His Heaven knows our minds and hearts. He loves us unconditionally, warts and all...and that's what really matters.
I love this (without being sarcastic or maybe I am):
"We can never be sure of what goes on in other people's minds...but rest assured God in His Heaven knows our minds and hearts. He loves us unconditionally, warts and all...and that's what really matters."
But if you believe we are created in the image of God and/or our body and our very being is the temple of God...then, I think, things can get very complicated about the quote above.
I find it extremely simple, not the least bit complicated. I wish you well...
the "extremely simple" can be the most complicated as well. that's why God (or the idea of God) is an eternal human concern.
your "wish you well" is flying back to you multiplied.
whatever you two are smoking can i have some?
And i thought love-ins went out in the 70s... :-)
Being a 4th yr senior at the Ateneo, I just need to put in my two cents:
1) The guy is obviously out of touch with reality. Really.
2) Just because one or two priests are out of touch with reality doesn't mean your Christian faith doesn't have any merit.
You don't see people with the same religion as those who bombed the WTC suddenly switching religions because their religion happens to have a few extremists. All sides do.
Sorry if this seems kinda late, but just had to say something.
gonzo...i smoke love...:)
I think it's funny how carlos loves to ignite arguments and then sit back and watch it flame up.
I don't think that Fr Reuter was celebrated for his brains. The Jesuit I'd longed to meet was Horacio de la Costa, but he died before I could get to college. Now, that one was an Atenean.
Even so, no true Filipino would have done as Fr Reuter did with little more to base judgement upon than un-divine inspiration.
I am not a Catholic--and never will be a Catholic-- but I understand how you feel about what the priest said. Hearing those kind of words from someone who you are supposed to look up to may bring disappointments in your part. But then again you should check your faith again...and delve deeper on what you really believe in because faith is not about one person...it's about you yourself and your relationship to HIM. I just hope you would not let an imperfect human being destroy what you have with God...
Oh no. Not at all. Im ok with HIM. It's just people who claim to be his representative/spokesperson that irk me.
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